The sound of silence

[krisomniac]

I'm not gonna lie. I'm kind of numb and considering not finishing that last chapter. It seems we've been debunked. Completely and thoroughly by the mistress of the canon herself. R/S shippers can argue, invent, and equivocate all we want, but we are NOT canon. I mean, not that we ever were, I suppose. It just feels so tacky. The Entire Tonks storyline felt pasted on to the plot in a final and contrived attempt to shut us all up.

Well, Jo. It worked. I think you may have lost this fan for good. Haven't yet decided.

It was great fun while it lasted, though, eh?

I tip my hat to all the R/T folk out there. I won't be joining you... ever, but I do hope that you don't gloat too loudly. Or else I'll just have to not be around to read it.

Actually, I think I may retire from the fandom for a bit. At least to catch my creative breath, as it were.

Then, I've also been known to say I'll never drink alcohol again after a particularly rough night. It all comes to nothing in the end.

*takes a bow*


ETA: I finally forced myself to read those last few pages. If you haven't... Tonks is very clearly... er... satisfied.

Comments

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

I did think it was really heavy on the relationship stuff. Between R/Hr, H/G, R/T... Although I thought Bill and Phlegm Fleur were cute :) "I am good looking enough for both of us!" hahahahahahaha. I dunno. I guess she was tying up all these loose ends of relationships since it looks like the seventh book won't be set at Hogwarts largely. I don't like the school of thought where everyone has to end up in a OTP relationship. I liked the rest of the book, though. And we've got HOW long for the next one to come out? I want to learn more about Snape........

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I was actually really enjoying the book up until that scene

That bloody scene. Now I don't want to bother finishing it. Lord, I'm way more disturbed by this than I thought I would be.

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

Heh, I spose that's after the MAJOR spoiler stuff anyway. pat pat

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Myeh, I'm skimming the end. Starting with the last page. It really doesn't get any better, eh?

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

Wrapping up the plot and setting up for the next book.

She should have left Remus alone. *pout* OUR REMUS! HE'S GAY, DAMMIT! Maybe Tonks can Metamorph to look like Sirius... heh

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Yeah, still not the same. JKR really shot us down. Really and completely. There's nothing uncertain about it. Nothing ambiguous anymore.

*shrugs*

[girlpearl]

Mija, no. Listen... So, Tonks is gaga for her mentor-type fellow, Remus, and who wouldn't be? But Remus resists--I'm too old, too poor, too dangerous. Too hung up on someone I loved and lost?

Remus/Tonks does not preclude Remus/Sirius. It just... follows it.

Anyway, isn't this what fanfic is about? Exploring the what-ifs and I-hated-whens of canon? Poke around in the dark leftover bits. That's where you find the best stuff.

Okay, that's about all the cheerleading I can swing tonight. Just don't give up on the puppyshipping, okay, because if there's a downswing in it after this I'm going to be so disappointed.

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Heh.

I think I've been talked off the roof. Although I won't be a white knight for the ship anymore. :)

It's not canon. It is supra-canon, better-than-canon, the-canon-that-should-be.

Yeah. I lost my head for a bit, but it's glueing back on in some shape. After all, I've got to have something to plot and plan and doodle about through lectures, eh?

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Meh. What else is there to learn about Snape? I've decided that we all read way more into these stories than JKR ever intended. She didn't mean to create interesting and complex characters -- that happened by accident. And now it's a matter of her running around and making their brilliantly monochromatic one-dimensionality shine through.

It was *really* heavy on the relationship stuff. It *really* dug it into anyone who would ever dare question any of the "intended" pairings again. I almost feel like encased in this book there was the story she wanted to tell plus the story she felt she needed to state in no uncertain terms as a retaliation to fandom.

More's the pity.

[nistelle.livejournal.com]

<

[Error: Irreparable invalid markup ('<i've>') in entry. Owner must fix manually. Raw contents below.]

<<I've decided that we all read way more into these stories than JKR ever intended. She didn't mean to create interesting and complex characters -- that happened by accident. And now it's a matter of her running around and making their brilliantly monochromatic one-dimensionality shine through.>>

God, well said. I just keep shaking my head of what a /waste/ it all is. She really had so many opportunities to do things with characters and relationships that have really never been done before, but... nothing.

Anyway I just agree completely with everything you've said. It's comforting to read my exact thoughts. ^_~

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

And I was so ready to enjoy the books, to overlook the ehavyhanded-ness. That was until the very heavy hand whacked me in the face.

Hell, I even thought the soul-splitting was a neat little way to structure Harry's fighting energy.

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

There is gonna be lots of wild theories on RAB for the next couple of years though. Personally, the first thing I thought was Regulus Black. But that's just me.

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Ooo... I'd bet anything you're right. Although, I seem to be on the dead opposite wavelength of JKR.

[mariana-oconnor.livejournal.com]

In complete agreement, I spent a while racking my brains for someone with the initials and then... and that _will be good... but still grrr argh can't _anyone_ be bloody ambiguous anymore!?

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

About as ambiguous as a Disney cartoon.

What? Didn't you get the memo? All people have a counterpart out there, a member of the opposite sex without whom you will pine and wear away, getting thinner and thinner until you finally disappear in a loud *pop* of not fitting in.
[/bitter sarcasm]

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

btw, The ultimate spoiler post (http://www.livejournal.com/users/mushroom/156050.html) containing the identity of the HBP, who dies, and the entire last paragraph. I laughed. :)

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Myeah. Doesn't really do it justice, though. Lord, I'm sorry I'm such a downer this evening. I was really enjoying myself, and now I'm just not. I think I'll watch a movie or something instead... It's quiet around here, eh?

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

I'd suggest reading some really good R/S slash but that's just going to make you more bitter. Pat pat again. Hisses at JK.

I did think it was funny, Ron accusing Ginny of jumping through guys so quickly. She was with Micheal for several months, and Dean from.. before the summer until after Christmas, probly around Easter sometime? Not like it was a couple of weeks each.

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Yeah, and what Arthur calls Molly in private... I had a good giggle over that one.

I also thought it was hilarious that my final prediction for the book was that it would not find Crabbe or Goyle dressed in womens' clothing here (http://www.livejournal.com/users/lazy_neutrino/20147.html?view=328627#t328627)

[eridanusus.livejournal.com]

Oh, TOO funny!!!
I told Christopher the half-blood prince was going to be the next DADA teacher just to tie it in nicely.. but that hardly counts and I didn't get it in writing. Heh.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I haven't read it yet (my copy's not here), but I've been hearing that while she's debunked Remus was GAY, there's nothing to destroy pre-Sirius's death stories, right?

I mean, I have to admit from what I'm hearing, I don't particularly like this ship. I never saw it coming in OotP except that I thought "hmmm. Young woman. Wonder if she's there to hook up with Remus?" Which annoys me, because I wanted Tonks to be more than a love interest, and it sounds like most of her plot is "I love Remus, make him notice me!"

I've also heard that Tonks is thinner, more haggard, and her Patronus has changed. Please, please tell me there are no signs pointing to her becoming a werewolf for Remus?

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Totally wouldn't put it past.

My problem was the utter inappropriateness of the scene in which they "get together" as it were.

Pretty much, you could wrangle a story in which there was past R/S, but not really. He's straight as a beanpole in this one. Doesn't even refer to Sirius.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Eh. That I can get around no problem, because Remus in canon never mentions ANYTHING. ::Sigh:: That's kind of why we have so much room for interpretation with him.

Before I started shipping R/S (I didn't start until OotP), I actually read Remus as pretty asexual, so unless he's whipping out the chest hair and bending Tonks over backwards, I -guess- I can deal with it ;) Although from what I'm hearing, I'm going to have more problems with- like you say- the WAY they get together or anything else.

On the plus side, having a love interest might actually increase Remus's chances for survival. But if it's not our Remus....

The funny thing was I have a one-shot in mind (and have had, ever since I first wrote Azkaban Tango, which was AGES ago) of Remus discovering he IS bisexual during the Lost Years (with the most inappropriate of women. heh.). Like I said, I did kind of suspect Tonks and Remus would get together, I was just hoping they wouldn't because the reason I suspected it was "single female, single male... must be in love!" And that's the very thing I hate about fanfic.

I'll finish Accidentally In Love, and do a couple of my other stories that are nearly started, but this might be just as well for me. I need to get onto something original again, and off fanfic.

But I solemnly swear I will NEVER write anything Tonks/Remus oriented.

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Hehehe. Yeah.

He comes off as pretty darn straight -- albeit reserved.

I think this is it for me and fanfic. Ah well. Might try writing for real. Might just focus on reading again -- it worked for the last eighteen years, after all.

Kali is absolutely right:

HBP - inspiring original authors the world over.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I'll have to see on the straight thing. I tend to write Remus as trying to come off straight anyway, so.... I've never been able to tell one way or the other unless there was a partner. (One of my best friends ever comes off as pretty gay, but he's happily married and is 99% sure he's not at all bisexual. So I've never really been too into the "I read him as..." arguments.)

HBP - inspiring original authors the world over.

Definitely. The frustrating thing is I've got a co-write going where it really just needs editing, and I've been putting it off. (So has she.) The beauty of fanfic is I can just -write-. Editing sucks. I'm a little worried (okay, very worried) I won't be inspired to finish Accidentally In Love, but we'll see. Thing is, I was headed for gen, anyway.

Think I'll be avoiding the Park, though. I REALLY don't want to hear "I told you so"s from the R/T shippers. Because I STILL maintain that there was nothing there in OotP, and that even if they are together and happy, Tonks and Remus are not a cute couple. (I actually think very, very few couples are "cute." Ick.)

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

I think that what I'm reading (regardless of the words) is that JKR doesn't *want* us to go one saying that Remus is either gay or bi, no matter how we could talk circles around this new development.

Yeah. I thought this book would re-invigorate me in the fandom, but it's managed to do exactly the opposite.

and Yeah again; very few couples are cute. Most of them just are. In fact, one of my great solaces in singledom is the ability to look at other people;s relationships with the realisation that I wouldn't trade places with them for the world.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

I think that what I'm reading (regardless of the words) is that JKR doesn't *want* us to go one saying that Remus is either gay or bi, no matter how we could talk circles around this new development.

The frustrating thing about this is some of the hints she put in (Sirius and Remus living together, the joint Christmas gift)... she had to know how people would take them, and they had NO influence on the plot. At all. Remus is a wizard, for crying out loud. He can Apparate or Floo, and he could have easily stayed at his own place. And if Harry had gotten a bag of Bernie Bott's Beans from Remus, or some little trinket, that would have changed anything how? If she didn't want them to be read that way, she could have skipped some of those details. ::Sgih::

very few couples are cute. Most of them just are.

Exactly. Love is great- I mean, I'm very happily married. But for one, it's not the only thing in life- or even the ultimate goal. (That was one of the things I really like about writing Caradoc and Moody- they both are HAPPY single, and god help anyone who tries to change their minds!) And two, a real couple has problems and issues and everything, and that's when they get interesting to read about. That's why Remus and Sirius were interesting to read (good fanfic) about- there's a lot that can be done with that sort of issue. I don't think that any couple is "cute". The only thing I think is cute is preteen cluelessness at times. ::sigh::

Well, you can bet in my fantasy series, when you start thinking the two guys are gay, they are ;)

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

Well, you can bet in my fantasy series, when you start thinking the two guys are gay, they are ;)

Amen!

[ignipes.livejournal.com]

We should start a club for Recovering Harry Potter Fanfiction Writers. It would be good for the world at large. "Making the World a More Creative Place."

I haven't read HBP yet, but I did make Kris tell me what happens. Not that she really needed much persuading to vent. And the sad part is nothing she told me was a surprise anyway. Dude, I've read that book before. Got a few paperbacks of that book on my bookshelf. Oh, well.

Think I'll be avoiding the Park, though. I REALLY don't want to hear "I told you so"s from the R/T shippers.

Seriously. Few things are more annoying than the gloating of somebody who was right because of a lucky guess.

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Heh. We should. I've known I need to get out of it anyway, so hopefully this will help. Gen one-shots are one thing; epics are another. On the other hand, I suspect many people will be ticked at me if I don't finish AIL, and I'm not sure how badly it's been knocked out of canon, anyway. We'll see. If the UPS guy ever gets here.

Sadly, Remus/Tonks wasn't a surprise to me, either- like I said above, I have suspected (and hoped I was wrong) she was introduced as a love interest for Remus. I also don't feel like the book has been spoiled, because I've avoided spoilers about a lot of the rest of the plot. But I suspect my respect for Tonks as a character just spiraled down the drain. (I'll be very interested to read what jazzypom has to say about this!)

But the backlash in fandom will definitely scare me. I've gone over to the Park a little, and yes- there's a lot of squeeing (and at least one nasty comment) about R/T, and R/S. And it was definitely a lucky guess- there is nothing in OotP to really make it look like they're together. ::Sigh::

[(Anonymous)]

>>But I suspect my respect for Tonks as a character just spiraled down the drain.>>

Yeah, mine too. And I think that's my real problem with R/T as it was presented in HBP. Not that it existed at all (though I wouldn't have been particularly happy about that, either) but, well, all the below points:

(a) That she needed to literally rob Tonks of her powers. As a feminist, the idea that women are helpless without a man bothers me. Why couldn't they have had an equal relationship, or at least one that didn't involve Tonks ripping out her spine and begging for Remus to love her?

And the changing Patronus bugged me, too. I think we were supposed to see it as a moving delacaration of love and affection. But instead not only did it turn into the old 'changing yourself (haha) for a man' thing, but it added on the 'poor little girl needs a big strong man to take care of her'. Couldn't Tonks's Patronus been something that reflected *her* inner strength: not just whatever guy she happened to fancy at the time?

(b)The emphasis on marriage and love as being the most important things in the world. Yes, love is vitally important and I think marriage is positively nifty. But I think that life is about a good deal more than that and I wished that this book had reflected it. If Remus and Tonks's relationship had been in the background, a part of a larger character arc, it would have been far easier for me to enjoy. Instead it pushed love and romance to the front and center, as if it was the most important thing that they could be doing right then. I don't like this in fanfic and I like it even less in canon. At least here we can say that we're choosing to focus on the aspects of canon that we're most interested in, i.e. the relationship between these two characters. For JKR to do it, she must purposefully narrow her focus so that she can make romantic relationships paramount over all others. And, as I've said, I just don't like that.

(c) The fact that JKR dismissed what I think are perfectly valid reasons for Remus and Tonks to _not_ get together by saying that their love could overcome all that. And while I know that a lot of people think that's romantic and beautiful but I don't. Especially not when it's a young woman who's expected to go after a much older, somewhat embittered man and 'save' him with her love. This isn't limited to HP, either, in fact it's the main reason that I avoid many romantic movies and books. The idea that older, trouble man + younger, idealistic girl = True Love Always has always bothered me. Why doesn't the girl go and find a young idealistic boy who she would most likely have more in common with? Or have the older man find an equally troubled woman of the same age? I just... ugh. Don't like it, never have, never will.

Oh well. I think that after venting I'm definitely taking a two week break from this fandom. I'll go, read other fics from fandoms past, maybe explore a few new ones. I don't want to hear any crowing from the anti-R/S side or even any squeeing about how cute Remus and Tonks are together (though I don't think that there's anything wrong with that either. I'm happy for the R/T fans, really. As long as they don't gloat or rub anything in my face, I have no issue with them. We have very, very different tastes in pairings but I'm not so arrogant as to say that my taste is good and theirs is bad). Last night, before going out to buy the book, I went and reread all my favourite R/S fics and meta and said my formal goodbye to this pairing. Now I think that I'm ready to really let it go.

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Oh well. I think that after venting I'm definitely taking a two week break from this fandom. I'll go, read other fics from fandoms past, maybe explore a few new ones. I don't want to hear any crowing from the anti-R/S side or even any squeeing about how cute Remus and Tonks are together (though I don't think that there's anything wrong with that either. I'm happy for the R/T fans, really. As long as they don't gloat or rub anything in my face, I have no issue with them. We have very, very different tastes in pairings but I'm not so arrogant as to say that my taste is good and theirs is bad).

Good on you, mate. :) Really.

And I agree heartily that the Finding-Someone-to-Love-will-make-all-your-problems-go-away is the wrong message to send to all the single girls out there. It's unfortunate that JK didn't think that through.

Luckily Ginny didn't fall down and beg Harry to take her back. That would've been the last straw.

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

The ship is pasted onto the plot, inserted at the worst possible moment, and completely rewrites the characters from previous novels.

[(Anonymous)]

All right, this is just one desperate reader pleading with all of you esp. Ignipes, KrisLaughs and LupinsLittleSister: PLEASE DON'T STOP WRITING R/S FANFICS! You're the only ones I can rely on now! Pretty please?

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Hehe. I think they've talked me off the roof, and PG is back on track (once we jimmy around the professorships a bit to include the Slug) ;)

[lls-mutant.livejournal.com]

Okay, I've got it and I peaked at the end.

He's her Patronus? (Okay, so I write Sirius as Remus's, but... Sirius DID something for Remus!) And she GRABS HIS ROBES AND SHAKES HIM AND BEGS?????? WHERE IS TONKS? Where is my lively, no-shit, sassing Moody Tonks?

GIVE HER BACK, JKR!!!!! It's not that I have as much a problem with Remus in a het relationship, but WHAT HAPPENED TO TONKS?????????????????

Holy crikey whatever. Sheesh.

At least Ginny mimed puking into her cereal over Fleur. Sheesh.

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Heh. Ginny rocked! She totally did.

and other than her and Luna (who's still my favourite female charcter in all of the potterverse) this book did a hulluva lot to make single girls the world over feel like shit. :)

There, there

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

Late to the game, but I've already seen my appetite for fanfic dimmed, and it's telling that after the first reading, I haven't reread HBP straight through (just a few chapters here and there).

Short of beta'ing, I don't think I'm in the fandom anymore... that Lupin/Tonks thing was foul.

Re: There, there

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

:{

That's awfully unfortunate, but I do completely see where you're coming from. So I won't try to dissuade you.

Do reread, because upon doing so, there's a lot that's really really good in the book (though we may have lost the thing that was best.) Also reread PoA. It's still lovely.

PoA is still great

[jazzypom.livejournal.com]

and there are good bits in HBP, it's just that I find myself skimming over the Harry/Ginny (which takes up a bit of the book - if not in doing, in thoughts) but really the end is a bummer.

Re: PoA is still great

[krisomniac.livejournal.com]

Yeah no kidding. Getting shot out if the sky kinda hurts.